Bliesma. T25A-6 25mm Aluminum-Magnesium Alloy Dome Tweeter T25S-6 25mm Silk Dome Tweeter Description. Bliesma

 
 T25A-6 25mm Aluminum-Magnesium Alloy Dome Tweeter T25S-6 25mm Silk Dome Tweeter DescriptionBliesma  Saying I'm looking forward to that is an understatement

The Scanspeak dome is a bit tougher nut to crack. Broken ring. 魔雷TiCW1258+艾卡顿090+Bliesma T34B_阿卡多-帕格尼尼-魔鬼的颤音. まだBlieSMaを鳴らして1日なのでちょっとかわいそうな比較ではありますが(とは言ってもインピーダンスカーブを見る限り、バーンインは完了してますが)、BlieSMaはScan speakと比較すると「 艶といった品位や音の芯は無い物の、脚色なくストイックに鳴る 」というのが最初に感じた印象です。Hi I have a build starting this week, a 2. The Bliesma 3" mid is totally comfortable crossing at 400hz, which very few dome mids can do (as it stands, I think that's ATC and Bliesma silk). The Troels design was a 4 way using all Ellipticor drivers so was pretty top end 1+3. To begin, I used the LinearX LMS analyzer to produce the 300-point impedance sweep. The Bliesma Be domes are really exceptional tweeters, but so are their equivalent Alu/Mg domes (and also the Diamond dome in the case of the T25). The VM752 also offers 94 dB sensitivity, and 100 W (AES) rated power handling, has a 200 mm diameter ferrite magnet, with a 2 mm Xmax, and a 500-Hz-to-4-kHz operating range. PRICE: $600. Currently using the GS25 and GS690 in my other vehicle and while detailed feel its a bit more forward than I prefer, so I'm leaning towards a warmer setup. Mids: Satori MW13P-4 5" (Factory Door Locations). Bliesma T34 and Peerless DA32TX00-08 are the only ones I know of that may be able to. Review of the 8" Alu cone long-stroke midwoofer PURIFI PTT8. 绅士宝 18WE/8542+ 绅士宝 5520. Thick aluminium mounting flange is powder coated, aluminium rear chamber is filled with. And so, three months later it's new product is on the our test bench - beryllium 34 mm dome tweeter T34B-4. Tweets: Bliesma T25S-6 Silk-Dome 1" (Modded Factory A-Pillar Locations). In process of new build, Teyes CC3 head unit optical out to MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 DL. Beryllium dome of Bliesma M74B-6 midrange is protected with grill. The dome shape, the inverted surround and the slight waveguided lip all produce something different in reality to the simulation you ran, which is reasonably close as many of the main features are easy to guess and. It will be a 3way active: 12sealed+6+1. MNCC, or 901. 219,211. That eliminates all speakers not using SOTA drivers like Purifi, BlieSMa and huge subwoofers and also not employing heavy, stiff, diffraction optimized enclosures. BLIESMA M74A-6, Aluminum/Magnesium 74mm Dome Midrange. . These look a curious beast maybe to bridge between a woofer/subwoofer and their M74 upper mid domes or with the. 0X04-NAB-02. BLIESMA T25B-6 Tweeter Votes: 3 100. Considering ATC's price, Bliesma M74 is reasonable, right? JPA Active Member. Its none of anyone's business. Just as legal as these are: DSP750 In-Wall Loudspeaker. Building time should be arround 6-12 months. Beryllium domes may have similar on-axis response like soft domes, but the off-axis is usually different. As a whole, when used in their pistonic range within VC excursion limits, HF drivers shouldn't exhibit too much of their own signature. <40dB/1% for BliesMa @ 5. $ 273. I tried to do a gentle slope. The speaker cabinet is a tower of 109 cm high, 45 cm wide and 40 cm deep. $281. Flange is 121mm wide and 10mm thick according to Malikov (Bliesma founder/engineer). Drivers: 2x SB acoustics MW16P-8. #68. 97 dB. Single-layer ribbon CCAW (Copper-clad Aluminum Wire) voice coil of Bliesma M74P-6 is wound on titanium former. 2 Volt were carried out with High Pass Filter "on" (2nd order Butterworth type, 800 Hz cutoff, HPF2-800) . 96 dB. 2015 GMC - BliesMa T25B pillars, Dynaudio e430 dash, dual Dayton 7" ES180-Tia woofers in aperiodic door boxes, underfloor sub box Alpine R 15", Stock HU ->NavTV->Helix Ultra, Brax, RF amps 2006 Chrysler 300c - BliesMa T25B pillars, Xcelsus XXM325 Dash, Satori 9. Sensitivity. And, unfortunately, the IEC 62458 method isn't used widely. 2013 Subaru Legacy: Kenwood DDX9705s, minidsp CDSP 8x12DL, 2x Audio System F4-650, Bliesma T25b, Xcelsus xxm325, SI TM65 MKIV, Hivi d8. If the "Excel series" behave the same way, they aren't very good. How loud are. Im not going to go into a lot of detail in this post. 3, Vas = 25 liter. Amps: Biketronics BT4210 (210 x 4 mids/tweets), Biketronics BT3725 (250 x 2 midbasses, 700 x 1 sub). Also, the Bliesma is mounted on top of the baffle, a bit far from the mid. I gave it a slight downward tilt too, adjusted by the two resistors. 7 kHz for AlMg and 2. Remember that the Purifi has a huge linear Xmax of +/- 10 mm and an Sd of 133cm2. 5W04-01A midwoofer. Bliesma M74A-6 midrange features 74 mm AlMg-alloy dome with varable thickness. The Bliesma design however makes this a near impossible task without a dedicated jig of sorts. It requiere attention, as you already noted. 5” or 8” woofer. These were purchased from Solen on 3/24. eu BlieSMa M74A-6, M74B-6, M74P-6 and M74S-6 What is on the test bench? In the end of 2021, the pleased the loudspeaker designers community with the release of a line of four 3" dome midranges at once, the development of which had been rumored for a long time. 330. 0 are used and looking for good side subwoofer. It will be a 2way + rearfill and sub. 6 Volt were carried out with High Pass Filter "on" (4th order. Natural silk soft dome midrange. In this Test Bench, we characterize the SB Acoustics MW16TX-8 (Photo 1). disconnect. In the HifiCompass review of the Bliesma 3" aluminum and beryllium domes it stated that "At frequencies of 2. Moving mass of the driver is as low as 1. It features a natural silk dome with a variable thickness, which provides a smooth and extended frequency response. And that’s a challenge I haven’t been able to overcome- to properly compare a poly cone to paper cone to aluminum cone to beryllium cone. This is a review, listening tests and detailed measurements of Focal Chora 816 floor-standing/tower speaker. BlieSMa T25A-6, T25B-6, T25D-6, T25S-6 - a comparison of dome materials. Everything from SB, Seas, Vifa, Scanspeak, Peerless, etc has been flawless. From time to time I get request for the details of this waveguide so I created this thread to share the details, and to see the experiences and measurements from those who used this WG. 5W04-01A midwoofer. Midbasses: Dayton Designer DSA175-8 6. THD at 100dBSpl is about 1% for the ScanSpeak - Bliesma 0,1% at 1kHz. JRS. Despite the low price, the speaker is beautifully finished with a curved port and beautiful light oak finish: A magnetic grill covers. 2 Volt were carried out with High Pass Filter "on" (2nd order Butterworth type, 800 Hz cutoff, HPF2-800) . 80*. Tweeter and midrange will be grouped because of lack of. Of course not 6"+1" standard, but more sophisticated. headshake Active Member. 5寸口径上,石墨烯单元还有几个有力的竞争对手, 但在5. Even so, there is quite a bit of difference. Not very practical for the size constraints in an automobile. Scan Speak Silver Series 10M/4614G06 3″ Fiberglass Cone Midrange –. 00 star(s) (5. Sponsored. That is only half true, the shape/height of the dome is quite significant. 3kHz. 6 ohms. Its time for me to start another project. 80 €148. 2 and 3. Location. 5" woofers in aperiodic door boxes, AE IB15, Joying Android HU. The Bliesma T34A has a similar effortlessness as the ER4 but is much better overall. BlieSMa T25B Beryllium Tweeters. MNCC, or 901. 2 Volt were carried out with. Build quality is superb. Midbasses: Dayton Designer DSA175-8 6. Bliesma T34b-4. This is an unusual driver, but it has some serious lower midrange / upper bass capability. 5" woofers in aperiodic door boxes, AE IB15, Joying Android HU. The Bliesma drivers are really well behaved and the mid is very consistent in radiation up to 1. PuriWave (Purifi PTT6. FI : BlieSMa - Speakers Capacitors Coils Equipment Car audio sets Accessories Amplifiers Resistors speaker, shop, buy, capacitor. D. . Dec 23, 2022 #41BlieSMa M74P-6 Bass-midwoofer. 20 kg. 5 寸. 2022-09-01 5:18 pm. Figure 1: This is a cutaway drawing of the Bold North Audio. Nice heavy aluminum housing. Woofer will be most likely the new Purifi PTT10 crossed activ. CD SACDs 24. Sd = 180 cm^2, that is more surface area than a 7" woofer, and almost as much as an 8" woofer. Offering an even more linear frequency response and the benefit of a resonance peak that lies beyond the 30kHz. 5" woofers in aperiodic door boxes, AE IB15, Joying Android HU. 874. I prefer 3-5 ft of speaker cable rather than 30-500ft from the amps to the drivers. As my concept design, bliesma T25b, M74b and purifi ptt8. 8 g. Scan Speaks 3" about 6-8V, TangBand also. Need Career, Pay or Personnel help? Call MyNavy Career Center: 833. 31% for SS vs. 91. We do not vet any members, use of this facility is at your own risk. 80 €356. I would go with 12MU and Bliesma, tilted baffle and symetric LR2 at ~3000. That makes it a driver without parallel. I just can't get a break with this bad luck. BlieSMa T34B – 4 Beryllium Dome Tweeter (Pair) We are a UK distributor for the highly acclaimed BlieSMa tweeters. Alu/mag, paper,. The Bliesma T34B-4 1-1/2" Beryllium tweeter is the upgraded version of the T34A-4. hificompass@gmail. Notice the Focal tweeters (Silk Dome) have a higher price tag compared to the Beryllium, Focal near $600 while the BLIESMA T25B-6 is around $250-300. Hi, thanks for answers very interesting read. Even at 107dBSpl it stays lower. Crimping it is! The BlieSMa has gold connectors and I wanted to show it some non-corrosive love. But the Bliesma is quite a bit more advanced than both tweeters in every way, and this shows in the measurements, the Bliesma is better than both in every objective metric, lower distortion, better polar response, and better time domain performance. It literally is plug-n-play between VituixCAD and REW with an extremely flat response. 11-16-2021, 08:08 AM. #23. TLDR: the speaker uses a laser cut baffle to hold the tweeter/mid on the smallest denovo box. Mashcky Active Member. As far as I remember are the designs of these 3" waveguides pretty simple - linear with radius or just radius. I actually did not make any sims for this WG, it is OSWG with the right diameter, angle etc kind of lucky guess. Item Information. more like a midwoofer than a dome. The main activity is the development and production of high-quality loudspeaker drivers. It is not intended to be a deep dive. Moving mass of the driver is as low as 1. I somehow tend to like quite simple 2-way projects. Subs: 2 x Scanspeak Discovery 10" in Underfloor Sealed Enclosure. CSD of unit 1. 9% PP fee. I'm thinking really hard about switching the tweeter out for the raal 70 20 sr Bliesma T25B-6, SB MD60, Purifi 6. Pages. The adjustable LPAD is intended for 8ohm drivers, so the setup is maybe a little unfair to the Bliesma. $435. DXT measures well, but sonically there are. Features : • 25mm aluminium-magnesium alloy dome with variable thickness for ultrasonic first breakup mode • Extremely low moving mass for better transient response and higher efficiency • Fully saturated neodymium motor with copper sleeve for low. Accuton C90-6-079, check. BlieSMa M74B-6 €899. Even Eminence has their product design and manufacturing down after many years of durability and fit / finish issues. Testing 34 mm AlMg dome T34A-4 from BlieSMa/Germany. zon001. After 3. IIRC the H series of woofers are the "subbiest" of the bunch. 5M08 and crossed over at 2500Hz to the (probably) Bliesma T34A. 238. The extremely lineair frequency response and its amazing wide dispersion is unmatched by any other tweeter. Joined 2006. The dome shape, the inverted surround and the slight waveguided lip all produce something different in reality to the simulation you ran, which is reasonably close as many of the main features are easy to guess and. Nearfield listening as the speakers are 200-250 cm for listening position. Prior to starting BlieSMa, Malikov worked at Ultrasound Technologies, at Morel as a QC manager and a transducer engineer, and at Accuton as a production engineer for the last 8 years. I recommend precision routing both sides (if you use MDF). The large-roll surround and textile dome diaphragm provide a flat frequency response to above 30KHz with outstanding off-axis dispersion. 3mm peak to peak. 16 - driven with 3x Sony XES M3 Eminence LAB 15 - driven with Alpine PDX M12, Helix DSP Pro MKII + Director + Fiio X7 mk2. I had to buy all of the gold "Female Disconnect" sizes since none of my drivers are the same. Two different worlds, one love story for the ages. You will go mad if you just try the fem. (currently seas l26roy) It will be crossed at aprox. They have built their reputation extremely quickly for building tweeter designs that are at the forefront of driver design. #1. Here is the Hificompass test of the T34. It has to hit at least 110dB peaks, but not at a singular frequency, which is trivial, but rather 15hz-10kHz. Something like the Bliesma T34B has much better performance regarding THD and control of resonances (though also in a different price category). 1. 83V makes this driver pretty unique. 5 dB. 5" woofers in aperiodic door boxes, AE IB15, Joying Android HU. I tried contacting the retailer selling the drivers. The build quality is impressive. Prior to starting BlieSMa, Malikov worked at Ultrasound Technologies, at Morel as a QC manager and a transducer engineer, and at Accuton as a production engineer for the last 8 years. 71/ea. Flux density 2,2T vs 1,5T. H. I've never seen a review of it, so don't know if it's the same quality. Accuton C90-6-079, check. I'm close to pulling the trigger on a pair of Bliesma T34B. So a Bliesma T25B-6 + SBA TX midrange/woofers is hopefully in the future for me. 5X04-NFA-01 midbass transducer is an over-achiever, and to help understand why, Dickason talks with Lars Risbo about the research and thought process that lead to many of the features found in this woofer. Wire terminals are gold plated. But they are both listed to have a 200mm magnet. MNCC (DSN 882. 20 kg. Available from May 2018, the T34A-4 is a 30 mm metal aluminum/magnesium alloy dome tweeter with a substantial feature set that includes extremely low moving mass, and a fully saturated neodymium motor with copper. Bliesma T25B. (*) Prices are per unit, excluding Value Added Tax (VAT 24%) AUDIO-HI. So in baffle I expect ~-5dB. Thick aluminium powder coated flange. Yes it will be an high SPL / low distortion active 3-way (Hypex Fusion FA503) with dual PHL 6021MNd crossed over at 200Hz to dual Purifi PTT6. They sound extremely similar. Yes it will be an high SPL / low distortion active 3-way (Hypex Fusion FA503) with dual PHL 6021MNd crossed over at 200Hz to dual Purifi PTT6. 6 ohms. 5M or PTT5. BlieSMa’s first tweeter offering, the T34A-4 34 mm aluminum/magnesium alloy dome, appeared in Voice Coil’s June 2018 Test Bench. Comparing both speakers in terms of CD, again Bliesma is the winner. Single-layer ribbon voice coil of Bliesma M74B-6 is wound with copper-clad aluminum wire (CCAW) on titanium former. The sensitivity of 95 dB/2. The E-IX 2 way sealed (acoustic suspension) speaker kit was designed to look like Linn Kan or LS3/5a from the front but sound better than either and boy does it achieve that! The crossover has been designed holistically with UK and EU living spaces in mind where proximity to the walls is needed. 5kHz LR2 for his ER18DXT design because it handled stress testing to 105dB/1m well). or ask for better offer Beryllium dome midrange. Stinger Heigh10, optical to MiniDSP C-DSP 8x12 DL, Soundstream PN4. The HD measurements at distance 315 mm and voltages of 2. You can add up to three drivers for comparing. Price is: $695. This new mid dome is the little brother to the popular Volt Loudspeakers VM752 3” dome midrange. 4. The off axis dispersion will still be better than most speakers. Davis Acoustics Electro. SALE PENDING FS Bliesma T25A-6 Tweeters ONE MATCHED PAIR BNIB; ONE PAIR SOLD. I find solen is a little more expensive than some of the EU sellers so it could be a little less elsewhere. Sensitivity. Wishlist Compare CA$563. Curved. Features : • 74 mm beryllium dome for wide bandwidth and low non linear distortion • Extremely low moving mass for better transient response and higher efficiency • Fully saturated neodymium motor with copper sleeve for low non linear and modulation. 94db, 6ohm asking for $580. I've had hands-on time with both the 6640's and the D3004/6040-10's. (1) Scanspeak 2104/7120 3/4" Revelator tweeter. The Sointuva (Finnish for musical harmony) is based on the Purifi Ptt6. I saw that briefly, it was part of the Elipticor range so will probably rival the Bliesma T74B 3†Beryllium dome for price. diyAudio. C. 4. I bought the little 22TAF. SOLD SOLD SOLD SOLD SOLD SOLD. 5" woofers in aperiodic door boxes, AE IB15, Joying Android HU. , Scanspeak…? Apparently I can’t make things too easy on myself. The Faital is about 9db's more senitive with impedance taken into account. But I'm going to move to a different contour, I suspect fabric domes work better in OS contours. Bliesma M74S-6 midranges have extremely low mass (2. OP . I used 2xSB17NBAC on the bottom of 3-way and it was good for the price, though it was little bit one-note bass. For the woofer and midrange, there are several candidates and my budget will be the limitation. Mids: Satori MW13P-4 5" (Factory Door Locations). Bliesma t25A or S Bliesma m74A or S The youtube channel PresentDayProduction loved the Silk version for their studio monitors but reviews I have read often say they seem soft and the A version is less colored. It has 3mm of xmax. The first product being released by BlieSMa is a 34 mm tweeter, the T34A-4. Don't forget - one M74B at 2,83V already gives you 97-98dBSpl! With an Accuton C90 you would need 9-10V to get that level - and it's a 5". 34 mm. Thick aluminium. Some of the Purifi loudspeaker drivers and the Bliesma beryllium domes are on our. The plan is to build big absorbents in both corners of the closet. Extremely low moving mass for better transient response and higher efficiency. Displaying 1 to 9 (of 9 Products) Manufacturer . Other design goals: It is a known that these speakers will be augmented with subwoofer for frequencies below 80Hz The speakers must be able to play well also at low listening levels as the "client" - ie my friend likes to listen to music. Full range loudspeaker. Soon I will have SB17CAC/Seas DXT 2way, LR4, very nice. That is my experience as well. $110 (2) Dayton ES180TiA. New project: Bliesma T34B in WG, 18WE, 32W. Blu. ADDITIONAL INFORMATION: Beryllium dome, oversize 34mm For sale a pair of tweeters I got from a forum member a few weeks back. The VCL EX27 is a concept study for a loudspeaker that will be built by VCLLabs soon. 7 kHz for Be we can see bursts of the 3rd and 5th harmonics. Saying I'm looking forward to that is an understatement. Would love to play with miniDSP. Pre-orders commence at 5 a. Wire terminals are gold-plated. Wire terminals are gold plated. Our ergonomic designs easily adapt to a surgeon's technique and fully cover the expanding range of procedures that benefit from ultrasound guidance. It really is a game changer for tweeters, with it’s 34mm dome, 3mm excursion, wide dispersion and extremely linear frequency response it’s an easy to use driver that can be used safely down to around 1. In February, 2018 we tested the first BlieSMa (Germany) product - aluminium-magnesium 34 mm dome tweeter T34A-4. For capacitor alone, if you are using the slightly better range like the Jantzen Audio Superior Z Capacitor, that will cost you quite a bit for a 3 way crossover circuit. 2015 GMC - BliesMa T25B pillars, Dynaudio e430 dash, dual Dayton 7" ES180-Tia woofers in aperiodic door boxes, underfloor sub box Alpine R 15", Stock HU ->NavTV->Helix Ultra, Brax, RF amps 2006 Chrysler 300c - BliesMa T25B pillars, Xcelsus XXM325 Dash, Satori 9. €466. Get Directions. Moving mass of the driver is as low as 1. 5" woofers in aperiodic door boxes, AE IB15, Joying Android HU. BlieSMa T25A-6. The BlieSMa has gold connectors and I wanted to show it some non-corrosive love. 60 × 60 × 25 cm. Moving mass of the driver is as low as 1. BlieSMa T25S-6 Silk Dome Tweeter Matched Pair. 2018-12-31 6:03 pm. matsurus. 5" woofers in aperiodic door boxes, AE IB15, Joying Android HU. #31. That´s why the Bliesma M142-6. The T34 was substituted, level matched, and eq'd to the same level as the HF146R. BlieSMa T25B Beryllium Tweeters. And if your looking for a 3" dome and not in a hurry time wise,also look at what. Though I worked on several 4ways and 3ways, I still like and enjoy quite simple and easy projects. 5" woofers in aperiodic door boxes, AE IB15, Joying Android HU. 03 EachScottmoose, for the Seas magnesium series, I also have the 22taf SEAS The Art Of Sound Perfection E0047-04 T29MF001 I understand that I talking about the "prestige series" and you refer to the 1" version or the Excel. 1 user. Being a fan of other large dome tweeters ie. Saying I'm looking forward to that is an understatement. 06 + $30. Wire terminals are gold-plated. Seas W18 Magnesium - together with Bliesma in WG and crossed ovet at ~1k it could be very good. In part 2 of our monitor mini series we look at the driver choices we made - the BlieSMa T25S-6 tweeter, M74S-6 mid driver, Dayton Audio RS225-4 and RS315-HO. 在6. €219. The T34s can play at levels that very few dome tweeters are capable of while sounding good, the distortion down low beats all the competitors too. BlieSMa, located in Blieskastel, Germany, was founded January 16, 2018 by Stas Malikov. The same channel used a dayton audio woofer to pair, but as the build is still getting quite expensive a "couple" extra bucks for higher. Top. So, 250-1K for the M142, 1-4K for the M74, 4K up for the T25. Facebook/HiFiCompass. Frequency Response. 5 are really a 7" diameter driver, and the basket and motor/magnet are much larger and deeper compared to the GB60, so fitment can be an issue. Bliesma M74S-6 midranges feature 74 mm natural silk soft dome with integrated surround and protection grill. So many mfg's will state "linear" excursion, but that is based on geometry of voice coil vs gap height and/or +10% delta. Sd = 180 cm^2, that is more surface area than a 7" woofer, and almost as much as an 8" woofer. (Thanks, manufacturers!) Scan-Speak is slightly more irregular and within +-2B from 950Hz to 20kHz. Displacement of the 15" at Xmax is 467cm3 whereas displacement of 4 x Purifi is higher at 532cm3. the old 3inch ATC dome had double suspension plus overhung coil and a balsa wood stabilizer ring (10x3mm) recessed some mm from upper edge of the coil former. Woofer will be most likely the new Purifi PTT10 crossed activ. Together with a 34 mm Bliesma and two RAAL 140-15Ds. The netto internal volume is 125 L and the woofer and lo. All three tweeters appear to be built on the same platform, but optimized for each diaphragm material, and all three. #3. The low frequency measurement is highly skewed due to indoor room measurement. 2T and 34mm . Thanks to a fully saturated neodymium motor with copper sleeve it features low non-linear and modulation distortion. 0 g) of moving part, with linear excursion of 2. We are all still waiting for reviews and tests, but hopefully it will be good. 20 shipping. This article was published in Voice Coil, March 2019. Weight. (BlieSMa t25b + ETON 3-212 + Seas l26roy) + Hypex + PE boxes. It showed to work well with scan speak domes and ring radiators, and later to fit also T34B and providing good measurements. The fun part is that I've spent an evening talking with the designer Edwin Van Rijnveld. Single-layer ribbon CCAW (Copper-clad Aluminum Wire) voice coil of Bliesma M74A-6 is wound on titanium former. May 21, 2020. more like a midwoofer than a dome. Single-layer ribbon CCAW (Copper-clad Aluminum Wire) voice coil of Bliesma M74A-6 is wound on titanium former. com. 2021-12-05 3:10 pm. A potential DSP's I have. Features for this transducer include a small format 72 mm diameter injection-molded plastic faceplate, and an 8 mm wide coated. This Test Bench combines three new 25mm high-frequency transducers from German brand BlieSMa into a single characterization: the BlieSMa T25S-6 Silk Dome, the BlieSMa T25B-6 Beryllium Dome, and the BlieSMa T25D-6 Diamond Dome. No good hearing a compression driver slap around when the power flickers and you know those drivers are likely dead now.